What Is Hellfire? Part 3

People joyfully walking over to that glorious city with streets of gold while there lost family members and loved ones are being thrown into the fiery pit below with screams of agony and torment in horrific pain that will go on FOREVER!!! Do you really believe this??? Pastor Dennis

 Ambassador of Reconciliation

What Is Hellfire? Part 3

Sun, May. 13, 2012 Posted: 09:05 AM

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Part 1 laid the groundwork for this series by identifying some biblical principles that have a bearing on our understanding of hell. Part 2 gave three pictures of what hell might be, each of which finds some support in Scripture. Here in Part 3 I attempt to put it all together to formulate an alternate view of “hellfire” that is more consistent with the revelation we have of God’s character and purposes.

By taking into account the observations from Scripture in Part 1, assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the views in Part 2, and being careful not to build theories on faulty assumptions, we can come up with reasonable conclusions about what after-life judgment will be like.

Caution about Assumptions

Before attempting to answer the question “What is hellfire?” we really should examine the assumptions that are implicit in the question. Most English Bibles have taken four different biblical words (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna, and Tartarus) and translated them with the same English word (hell). That word is then invested with a meaning that the original speakers and writers never intended. Detailed studies of these four words and of the origins of the concept of hell have been done by many people more capable than I. For example, a number of nineteenth-century writers have written in-depth discussions of these words and traced the origins of the prevailing notion of hell.[i] Contemporary writers have come to many of the same conclusions; George Sarris[ii] asks and answers the question “Where did hell come from?” and explains Jesus' references to hell. John Noe[iii] has written a thoroughly researched and documented exploration of the whole concept of hell. I will not attempt to convey all their conclusions, but let me say that we need to be very careful not to make unwarranted assumptions.

For example, we should not make the mistake of equating Hades and Gehenna—an easy mistake to make if both are translated with the same word. Sheol and Hades are the Hebrew and Greek words, respectively, that refer to the place of the dead (both the righteous and the wicked). Neither should we assume that when Jesus was talking about Gehenna, He was referring to “hell” as we commonly conceive of it—a place or state of after-death punishment for the wicked. In His day, Gehenna was known as the accursed place outside Jerusalem where children had been sacrificed to pagan gods and where dead bodies were dumped without a proper burial. As John Noe points out, Gehenna “was and still is a proper noun and the name of a real, literal, familiar, this-world place.” This fact and certain Old Testament prophecies “render as highly suspect our modern-day concept of Jesus’ Gehenna being a metaphorical, other-worldly, afterlife place of eternal conscious punishment and torment that we have come to know as ‘hell.’”[iv] Rather, Jesus was speaking of a literal, impending, this-world judgment resulting in suffering and death.

Nor should we assume that “the lake of fire” is equivalent to hell. In Scripture, the lake of fire is never identified with any of the words translated as “hell.” (In fact, Hades is thrown “into” the lake of fire, indicating that they are not the same.) Rather than attempting to translate the four “hell” words with equivalent English words, which do not exist, I believe it would be better to transliterate the words and then explain what they meant in the minds of the original speakers, writers, hearers, and readers.

With these considerations in mind, let’s look at how we might understand the biblical references to “hell” and after-death judgment.

“Hellfire” as the Presence of God

Western Christians tend to think of “hell” as a place of torment or a state of being separated from God. But the teaching of Orthodox Christianity may be closer to the truth in this regard: that all will be in the direct, intense presence of God, but each one will experience it differently depending upon his or her relationship with God. For example, some contemporary Orthodox scholars put it this way: “Those theological symbols, heaven and hell, are not crudely understood as spatial destinations but rather refer to the experience of God’s presence according to two different modes.”[v] An analogy might be the blazing fire that instantly destroyed Nebuchadnezzar’s soldiers. It not only failed to harm Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, but it gave them an astounding, unforgettable experience of intimacy with God, because they worshiped Him alone and refused to bow to any other.

Gregory of Nazianzus, who lived in the fourth century, believed that God Himself is both paradise and punishment. He spoke of “the Judgment and the Reward according to the righteous scales of God”:

This will be Light to those whose mind is purified (that is, God—seen and known) proportionate to their degree of purity, which we call the Kingdom of heaven; but to those who suffer from blindness of their ruling faculty, darkness, that is estrangement from God, proportionate to their blindness here.[vi]

In other words, those who know God and are right with Him—who are covered by the blood of Christ and clothed in His righteousness—will see His blazing holiness and feel reverent fear but will experience His presence as a state of joy and light. They will bow before their King and be received by Him. They will be so intimate with Him as to be consumed by Him.

On the other hand, those who are in rebellion against Him will have a very different experience. They will stand naked before the Judge of all the earth, with no robes of righteousness, not pleading the name of Jesus. They will fully experience what the writer of Hebrews was talking about:

A fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God (10:27).

It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (10:31).

Our God is a consuming fire (12:29).

Imagine having all your sins laid bare before the King and Judge of the universe. Think of the worst thing you have ever done and the most important person you have offended, and remember the deep regret, the fear, the knot of anxiety in the pit of your stomach, the despair—and multiply it all a million times over. There will certainly be weeping and gnashing of teeth, agonizing guilt, and bitter anguish. Even those who once did evil with a seared conscience will now, in the presence of an infinitely holy God, be fully aware of the depth of their depravity. When they see God face to face, every deep recess of their wicked hearts will be exposed. Their consciences will be made acutely aware of the heinousness of their sins before a righteous God, and they will feel the torment of their own utter ruin. They will see God in all His burning holiness and will experience the terror of His consuming fire.

Consider this passage describing the dedication of Solomon’s temple. It catches a glimpse of what it is like to be in the presence of our holy God—both the terror and the glory:

When Solomon finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple. The priests could not enter the temple of the Lord because the glory of the Lord filled it. When all the Israelites saw the fire coming down and the glory of the Lord above the temple, they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshiped and gave thanks to the Lord, saying, He is good; his love endures forever (2 Chronicles 7:1-3).

Daniel also used the image of fire (not a “lake of fire” but a “river of fire”) as he struggled to try to describe his vision of the presence of God in all His majesty:

As I looked, thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat…. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him… (Daniel 7:9-10).

The writer of Hebrews describes the contrast between being in the presence of God without a mediator and being in His presence with Jesus as our Mediator:

You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.” The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel….

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire” (12:18-24, 28-29).

With these images in mind, we can see that a “lake of fire” is an apt metaphor for total immersion in God. It describes the intensity of being in His direct presence and captures both the terror and anguish experienced by the wicked in His presence, and the holiness and light experienced by the righteous. So I would suggest that none of the biblical words and images commonly assumed to refer to “hell” actually describe a place of never-ending conscious torment in the afterlife: Hades/Sheol is the place of the dead, Gehenna represents a terrible national judgment in this world, and the lake of fire is related to the intense presence of God.

As I said in my essay about what heaven may be like, “heaven will probably be very different from what any of us think it will be.” I suspect that the same is true of “hell.” I would be happy to hear readers’ ideas of what you think people will experience in the afterlife. I would also like you to point out any specific statements in this series that are contrary to the Word of God, so that I can correct and refine my ideas.

Part 4 will conclude this series by considering the Why? and How long? of after-life judgment, reviewing the scriptural principles that help to shape our understanding, and giving some final thoughts about the unfathomable destiny that God is preparing for His creation.

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[i] J. W. Hanson, “The Bible Hell,” 1888. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html Thomas B. Thayer, “The Biblical Doctrine of Hell,” from The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment, 1855. http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html

[ii] George W. Sarris, “Hell: Where Did It Come From…Really?” 2011 http://blogs.christianpost.com/engaging-the-culture/hell-where-did-it-come-from-really-7697/

[iii] John Noe, Ph.D., Hell Yes / Hell No, 2011.

[iv] Ibid., pp 43, 52. See his detailed study of Jesus’ use of the word Gehenna.

[v] Aristotle Papanikolaou and Elizabeth H. Prodromou, Thinking Through Faith: New Perspectives from Orthodox Christian Scholars, 2008.

[vi] Gregory of Nazianzus, Oration on Holy Baptism (A.D. 381)

Diane Perkins Castro

Diane Perkins Castro

BIO Subscribe to this blogger

Wife, Mom, Grandma, writer and editor of educational materials, with a longing to know and proclaim the fullness of the reconciliation that Jesus accomplished on the cross

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What Is Hellfire? Part 2

Back From The Dead? ©1982 by Jack T. Chick LLC

 Ambassador of Reconciliation

What Is Hellfire? Part 2

Sat, May. 05, 2012 Posted: 11:44 PM

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In Part 1 I examined Scripture to find principles that can help us understand what hell is. Here in Part 2 I present some possible explanations that can be supported by Scripture.

Consider which of these scenarios is most consistent with what we know about God and His purposes, or whether there might be another explanation that is better still.

The Inferno?

So what is hell? Is it the lake of fire, where Satan, the Beast, the False Prophet, and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are tormented forever? Is it Dante’s Inferno, where the lost suffer endless torments and are forced to abandon all hope? Is it the place imagined by Jonathan Edwards, where “Your bodies…will remain to roast through eternity”? [1] Is it the place envisioned by Charles Spurgeon, “where beds of flame are the fearful couches upon which spirits groan,…where the only music is the mournful symphony of damned spirits; where howling, groaning, moaning, wailing and gnashing of teeth make up the horrid concert,…where soul and body endure as much of infinite wrath as the finite can bear”? [2]

For anyone who believes that the Bible is the Word of God, “hell” means whatever Jesus and the authors of Scripture meant it to mean. Does the depiction of hell by Dante, Edwards, Spurgeon, Calvin, Augustine, and others with similar ideas throughout church history accurately portray what Jesus and the writers of Scripture had in mind? Or have people extrapolated beyond what Scripture teaches to come up with this notion of eternal conscious torment (ECT)? Does ECT sound like the work of the God of the Bible, or more like a pagan notion or a bad dream or a medieval doom painting? [3] If all of God’s purposes are good, what is the good purpose of creating billions of people who will end up being tormented forever? As a personal question, have you ever been horribly burned in a fire or experienced chronic, unremitting, excruciating pain? What good purpose did it serve? Try to imagine how God might bring good from billions of people suffering such pain endlessly.

Separation from God?

The idea of hell as eternal separation from God is a popular way to soften the teaching of eternal conscious torment. It may not include the unbearable physical pain of being continually burned without being consumed, but it can still be described as torment because the person is forever separated from God and from all that is good—there will be no beauty, no friendship, no love, no peace, no joy, no comfort, no hope. People will experience the utter despair of knowing that they have missed their opportunity for repentance and there is no possibility of ever finding relief from their condition.

Could hell be a state of separation from God? Here is some evidence that is sometimes offered. The people of Israel were thrust out of the presence of God for their sin:

So the Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them from his presence…. The Lord rejected all the people of Israel; he afflicted them and gave them into the hands of plunderers, until he thrust them from his presence (2 Kings 17:18, 20).

Isaiah says, “Your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear” (Isaiah 59:2). And Jesus does make some statements to that effect:

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?” Then I will tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:21-23).

Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

In 2 Thessalonians 1:8–9, Paul says, “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” (But see “Presuppositions and Interpretations, Part 2” #8 for a different translation and interpretation of being shut out from the presence of God.)

Yet what are we to do with the fact that God is omnipresent? As Solomon acknowledges, heaven and earth cannot contain God: “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you” (1 Kings 8:27). There is nowhere that anyone can go to be out of the presence of God. I do not believe the verses above refer to a separation from God in any physical sense. People can be separated from God in the sense of distance in their relationship but not in their location. So it seems unlikely that hell is a location or a state apart from God.

Annihilation?

Another way to soften the idea of ECT is to say that the unbelieving will cease to exist. Some who find the idea of everlasting suffering unbearable have opted for “annihilation,” or “conditional immortality,” the doctrine that people are not inherently immortal but are granted immortality if they receive the gift of eternal life through Christ; those who fail to accept the gift will be judged and punished and eventually destroyed. To incorporate the idea of “eternal” punishment, some suggest that the “everlasting destruction” might be an “asymptotic” process where a person’s existence diminishes but never reaches the limit of non-existence.

The idea of annihilation is more palatable than thinking of people suffering endlessly, but is it correct? Eminent Christians like John Stott have considered the doctrine of endless hell emotionally intolerable and have found support in Scripture for annihilation. They point to the fact that the immortality of the soul is a Greek concept, not a biblical one, and that eternal life is granted to a person when he receives it through faith in Christ, before which time he is only potentially immortal. The language of “destruction” also supports the idea that people will be completely consumed and will no longer exist. For example, Matthew 10:28 makes it sound as if the soul will be snuffed out in hell:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

This position also allows for punishment in proportion to the crime: people are punished for a longer or shorter time depending on the degree of their sin. This view would seem to be more compatible with the justice of God than never-ending suffering/separation for all the unredeemed alike.

The doctrine of conditional immortality is also consistent with the fact that the gospel is an offer of eternal life, i.e., immortality, which we do not have apart from Christ:

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world (John 6:51).

Christ Jesus has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Timothy 1:10).

So each of these positions on hell—ECT, separation from God, annihilation—accounts for some truths in Scripture regarding the eternal state. Yet each is also lacking in some way. Is there an alternative?

Part 3 will continue this series by offering another picture of “hellfire”—one that I believe is more consistent with the truths discussed in Part 1 and with all that we know about God’s character and purposes.

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[1] “The Eternity of Hell Torments,” by Jonathan Edwards, 1739. He goes on to say, “Do but consider what it is to suffer extreme torment forever and ever: to suffer it day and night from one year to another, from one age to another, and from one thousand ages to another (and so adding age to age, and thousands to thousands), in pain, in wailing and lamenting, groaning and shrieking, and gnashing your teeth - with your souls full of dreadful grief and amazement, [and] with your bodies and every member full of racking torture; without any possibility of getting ease; without any possibility of moving God to pity by your cries; without any possibility of hiding yourselves from him; without any possibility of diverting your thoughts from your pain; without any possibility of obtaining any manner of mitigation, or help, or change for the better.”

[2] “Profit and Loss,” by Rev. Charles H. Spurgeon, 1856.

[3] It is revealing to explore the development of the concept of eternal damnation in both Christian and non-Christian cultures. The website hopebeyondhell.net has resources on this topic and links to other websites.

Diane Perkins Castro

Diane Perkins Castro

BIO Subscribe to this blogger

Wife, Mom, Grandma, writer and editor of educational materials, with a longing to know and proclaim the fullness of the reconciliation that Jesus accomplished on the cross

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The Question Every Christian Asks

Wed, Apr. 25, 2012 Posted: 11:58 AM

By George W. Sarris

In Seven Days in Utopia – an excellent film based on David L. Cook’s best-selling book, Golf’s Sacred Journey – Robert Duvall’s character makes a very profound statement about his beliefs:

I respect tradition. But, I have a passion for the truth!

I wish I had thought up that line, because it expresses so well the reason why I initially looked into the issue of ultimate destinies.

Seek Truth Wherever It Leads

As a third year seminary student in the late 1970s, I was wrestling with the question every Christian asks at one time or another – How could a good God allow anyone to suffer consciously forever?

A number of years earlier when I was in college, God’s love had captured my heart and transformed my life. Prior to attending seminary, I served on the staff of a large campus missionary organization for four years. I wanted to tell others about this wonderful Being who had done such marvelous things in my life, but there was something deep inside of me that kept saying something was wrong with the prevailing teaching about Hell within the Christian community. It just didn’t seem consistent with what Scripture seemed to reveal about God’s character.

For one of my theology courses, I decided to address the issue in a straightforward manner as the subject of a research paper. God graciously provided a professor who was an honest scholar. I felt he would look at the paper objectively to grade it based on its merits and not just give me a failing grade because I didn’t agree with his theology. I had previously written a research paper on the reliability of the Bible and concluded that a deep confidence in the trustworthiness of God’s Word was the foundational doctrine upon which all the other doctrines of the Christian faith must be built. I wanted to find out for sure what the Bible actually taught about Hell.

One of the most surprising discoveries for me as I began my research was to learn that a significant number of sincere and dedicated Christians throughout history actually believed that God will one day restore all of His creation to the perfection He initially intended. This was especially true in the early centuries following the coming of Christ when the Church was closest to the Apostles, its influence and impact on the surrounding culture was the greatest and its growth was unmatched.

Many of those believers were respected leaders in the early church who were instrumental in laying the foundation for God’s new work in this world. Many were known for their exemplary lives in the face of intense trials and persecution. Many were martyred for their faith.

I wondered,

Is it possible that they got it right, and we have forgotten an important truth that they understood correctly?

Hell: Has It Always Been Forever?

I just posted a video on YouTube that I hope people who have a respect for tradition and a passion for the truth will find interesting, thought-provoking, and perhaps even challenging.

In the beginning, God created a marvelous universe that He said was “very good.” In His wisdom, He allowed evil to enter that very good creation and mar what He had made. But God is not only wise, He is also great! He did not allow evil to remain victorious. Through the cross of Jesus Christ, God defeated sin and death completely.

Will He one day restore all of His creation so that the final word will once again be,

God saw all that He had made, and it was very good?

 
Visit George W. Sarris on Facebook or his website.

George W. Sarris

From The Christian Post, CP Blogs, Engaging the Culture 

For Further Reference to This Subject, See These Resources

“Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its FirstFive Hundred Years”
 
(and showing the influence of Greek Mythology
and pagan philisophy on Christian Doctrine)

With Authorities and Extracts
 By J.W. HANSON, D. D.

Click Here to Read this Book Online Free

Also:

THE SALVATION CONSPIRACY:
How Hell Became Eternal
 
by Dr. Ken R. Vincent

Click Here to Read this Article Online Free

HELLBOUND?

Teaser Trailer Release This Week Offers First Look At This Compelling and Controversial Film

Hellbound?, a much-anticipated feature-length documentary, is an in-depth look at today’s highly contentious debate over the Christian doctrine of eternal punishment. Does hell really exist, and if so, what factors determine who ends up there? The release of a teaser trailer for Hellbound? this week offers a first look at this provocative film, which will hit theaters across North America in September 2012 through a combination of major metropolitan area theatrical runs and special event screenings.

Written and directed by award-winning independent filmmaker Kevin Miller (Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, Sex+Money, spOILed and With God On Our Side), Hellbound? features interviews with an eclectic group of high profile authors, theologians, pastors, social commentators, musicians, exorcists and individuals who claim to have experienced the fires of hell firsthand.

“Throughout history, Christians have disagreed about a lot of things,” says Miller. “During these debates, certain doctrines tend to become a litmus test to determine ‘insiders’ and ‘outsiders.’ That’s certainly the case right now regarding the doctrine of hell. Hellbound? is my attempt to get to the bottom of the current debate, to find out why it’s so contentious and to discover the implications of this dispute for both Christians and those watching from a distance.”

Miller has no illusions about the controversy this film might cause. “No matter what you believe about hell, this film is definitely going to push your buttons. But I see that as a healthy thing. Rather than just stir people up though, I hope Hellbound? will provoke informed discussion about what we believe about hell and why. I also hope it will get people to take a second look at the impact their beliefs have on the world at large.”

Production on Hellbound? took place in more than two-dozen cities across the United States, Canada and Denmark throughout 2011. It was produced by Miller’s own production company, Kevin Miller XI Productions Inc.

For the hybrid theatrical release, Miller is partnering with Area23a—an event-based theatrical distribution company co-founded by Kirt Eftekhar and Richard Abramowitz. “We are thrilled to be working with Kevin Miller on Hellbound? and to have the opportunity to connect audiences across America with this fascinating film,” says Eftekhar. “Hellbound? provides moviegoers and communities with a one-of-kind forum to get involved in the hell debate.”

Official Website: hellboundthemovie.com
On Facebook: facebook.com/HellboundtheMovie
Twitter: twitter.com/HellboundMovie

Demand the movie in your city

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ABOUT AREA23A
Area23a is a bi-coastal, independently owned, event-based theatrical distribution company, co-founded by distribution specialist Richard Abramowitz and Ocule Films founder, Kirt Eftekhar. The company focuses on event-driven films, providing value-added distribution through alternative ways to reach audiences across the country, releasing films in convention and community centers, nightclubs, casinos, libraries, museums, and college campuses, in addition to traditional venues like theaters and festivals. Area23a has distributed numerous award-winning films, including, Bill Guttentag and Dan Sturman’s Soundtrack for a Revolution, Michael Paul Stephenson’s Best Worst Movie, Gerry Wurzburg’s Wretches & Jabberers, Adrian Grenier’s Teenage Paparazzo and most recently Chris Paine’s Revenge of the Electric Car.

ABOUT KEVIN MILLER XI PRODUCTIONS INC.
Launched in early 2011, Kevin Miller XI Productions Inc. is an independent film production company based in Abbotsford, BC, Canada. It was founded by Kevin Miller, whose previous work includes Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, with Ben Stein; Sex+Money; spOILed; and With God On Our Side, among other projects. The company is currently developing numerous documentaries, feature films and television projects.

Have You Been Persecuted For Your Faith Today?

It is relatively easy to live as a mainstream traditional Christian in America today; but what of Jesus words:

John 15:18-21
(18)  If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
(19)  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
(20)  Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
(21)  But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.

First we have to ask ourselves the question was Jesus speaking of a nation, the church, or on an individual basis? It is obvious from the context that Jesus was speaking on an individual basis as he used phrases like “I am the vine, ye are the branches” If a man” “These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full” “love one another, as I have loved you” “Ye are my friends” “chosen you, and ordained you” and finally speaking of the same Spirit we would receive today:

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

So obviously this warning is a personal word for believers of that day and today that they would be hated and persecuted for their faith in Him.

How Big is Jesus Christ according to your faith?

Ironically, the Greater your Jesus, the Greater your Persecution;
The Smaller your Jesus the Smaller your Persecution.

“How Great is our God”

That should be a statement of Praise but it has become a Question today.

Chris Tomlin came out with a worship song with this same title that is loved and sang in multitudes of Protestant Churches across America today. Although you probably already know it, here are part of the lyrics of the song:

“The splendor of a King, clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice
All the earth rejoice
How great is our God, sing with me
How great is our God, and all will see
How great, how great is our God
Age to age He stands
And time is in His hands
Beginning and the end
Beginning and the end”

In other words they are singing that God is “infinite” in His being and “in control of all things” from the beginning to the end throughout all time. Another way of putting it would be that they are saying they agree with the traditional doctrine of the attributes of God being Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and All-Sovereign making Him Ruler of, and in Control of, ALL THINGS from BEGINNING to END. The majority, I think, would agree with this.

Also in the Catholic Mass repeated every week in Catholic Churches all across America today are repeated these words - I only include the part with which I wish to make my point:

Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father.
Lord Jesus Christ,
Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world,

[The new version]

What’s my Point?

Today Christians of all types are enjoying fellowship around the world in all kinds of events, causes, and community gatherings. I believe it is wonderful considering all the blood that has been spilled and lives that have been lost over the centuries between these groups and their splinter groups over their differences in theology.  It is beautiful how they can fellowship and join forces in these many ways while they overlook their differences and agree on the basics of theology. One of these being “How Great is Our God” as they all believe in the established attributes of God. That being, that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and All-Sovereign. While they also agree that Jesus Christ came to take away the sin of the world. I would also add that all would agree that God is Love and Loves All. So, they are all just one big happy global Christian family - believing in a Big God! Right? But how big?

Let me interject here with just a basic understanding of their differences in theology; there is a huge gulf between them in some areas; there are hundreds if not thousands of ways in which they all disagree. I say this not to discredit them but to clarify the point I making for fellowship; for which you will need this understanding. To not point a finger and also to keep this as short as possible I will only mention some of the differences and not the label which they belong to. Although these can be easily referenced by doing a simple Google search or one of the other major internet search engines and you will see that these differences are very real. The most important and most fundamental doctrine of their Christian faith is - how is one saved? Surely this is paramount to them and should be taken with the utmost seriousness. Amazingly while these groups have come together in peaceful fellowship around many community gatherings; these will completely set aside what they REALLY believe about their most urgent and serious doctrine – salvation of the soul.

Some believe one is saved only a few days following birth before the child knows anything about God by a simple ceremony obediently followed by a family who is a part of their group. This salvation continues until the child grows to the age to know right and wrong (age of accountability – nowhere found in scripture) then he or she must go through it again to continue in this salvation. And by the way, if you have not become a part of this particular group in one of these ways you cannot be saved. [You’re going to Hell]

Other groups in this gathering believe this is totally wrong and much blood has been shed in the past over these very differences.

While several other groups also believe you must be a part of their group to be saved by going through a similar ceremony or of course you cannot be saved. [You’re going to Hell]

Some believe your eternal salvation or eternal damnation is chosen by God before you are even born.

Others believe you must choose yourself whether to be saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation if you cross a line somewhere which no one knows for sure what or where it is…

While others believe that once you are saved their way you will always be saved and cannot lose it no matter what you do. “Once saved always saved” If you Really believed…

Most believe there are certain words one has to say and believe to be saved but they greatly differ in what these words may be or where and when they should be said. And of course if you didn’t do it right … [You’re going to Hell]

Some believe there are certain doctrines one must “really” believe to be saved while others  give you the freedom to sort of believe it as you see it.

Some believe there are certain things you must physically do to be saved while others do not think this is necessary.

Some believe there are some things you must remember to be “really” saved.

Some believe there are certain supernatural spiritual things that must happen to you that must be physically evident, while some others think these same things are of the devil… and if you practice them you’re on the road to Hell…

Some believe you must dress a certain way or have restrictions on make-up and hair styles while others don’t believe this is necessary.

Some believe you must keep certain rules that others do not think are important.

Some believe one can go directly to God yourself; while others believe you must go through another official church representative or a Priest or someone who is already saved.

Then there are sacraments and differing rituals that are required by some but not by others like baptism or even taking communion or the Eucharist, is required for salvation. Or of course [You’re going to Hell]

I could go on and on but I just wanted to touch on the MOST IMPORTANT question in all these groups purpose and their beliefs and they would all agree; it is whether a person is lost or saved; going to heaven or Hell. Unless you’re Catholic and they have Purgatory which is a temporary Hell. I find it bewildering that they could all differ so greatly on the requirements for going to heaven but one thing they ALL AGREE on is HELL! Don’t mess with their Hell! So if you do not keep their version of their all-important procedure of how to be saved YOU WILL GO TO AN ETERNAL EVERLASTING UNRELENTING CONSCIENCE TORMENT IN HELL WITH NO HOPE FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS AND THAT’S JUST THE BEGINNING OF ETERNITY!

Amazing isn’t it? That all these groups can fellowship so lovingly and peacefully together while they rally around certain causes, gather together in community meetings, go to concerts and fellowship meals and happily fellowshipping, singing and talking as if everything is OK - I love you, you love me, the Lord loves us, we love the Lord….. [Psssst but you’re going to HELL!] Not a big deal I don’t guess huh… Unless…. Yes, UNLESS… You happen to say you don’t believe their traditional view of hell…. then watch for flying rocks!!! Which leads me on to where I was in this article.

Now let’s look at another scenario.

We have a chat room, forum or blog maybe even twitter or facebook. There is conversation happily going on between all these brothers and sisters in Christ about the Goodness and Greatness of God; Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Nondenominational, Even some Catholics etc.  – it’s so wonderful! “We all believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible and Love the Lord!” Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound….”

Now enter in a Christian who mentions they do not believe in their view of how to be saved or stay saved… There will be some discussion of their differing views which usually doesn’t get too heated, sometimes even jokingly continue about how the other one is going to get bad news from St Peter at the pearly gates… Then they will go on with their fellowship.

Now enter in a Christian, a believer in Christ and the Bible who dearly Loves the Lord and His Children into the group; hold on to your seat now! - a Christian who does not believe in their traditional view of hell or eternal torment… Tempers will flare, words will get extremely harsh as the conversation continues and personal assault will ensue on the honest thoughts of this believing brother or sister.

These groups who differ so greatly on whether the other one is going to heaven or hell and in their basic beliefs believe many of the others are going to Hell; will rally together and join forces to thrust out this devil! that brings such heretical ideas! I have been in these situations many times and I know from experience. It can heat up real fast when you mess with their hell.

In these I’m usually not trying to convert them; just giving my thoughts on the matter. If they want to believe in eternal conscious torment that’s their right; maybe they need to. But it is equally my right to believe otherwise and should be shown the same respect they have for the other differing brothers and sisters on some very important doctrines. I am truly amazed and perplexed by what rouses such animosity so quickly on this subject that at other times they seem to take so lightly? They will even try to joke about it at times.

What is it about my view on this subject that pushes their buttons so quickly? Do they want some to go to Hell? I hope not, I wouldn’t want anyone to go to a place like that even if I believed in it. Which leads to another thought. If I did really believe what the traditional orthodox view of Hell teaches (which even as a Baptist then Pentecostal minister I never did but kept that to myself) if I really believed it I wouldn’t get much sleep, I’d spend as much time as possible either on my knees or running around  screaming at the top of my lungs warning people of this unimaginably horrific fate they were facing! Oddly though, those who say they believe the teaching of conscience eternal torment in the flames of Hell just brush it off and go on to another subject or change it to something lighter sounding like “eternal separation from God”. Sometimes even making silly jokes about it like “If you think it’s Hot here?” If I believed it I wouldn’t see anything to joke about or think it was funny in the least. Yet you will see the road sides littered with church signs with Thoughtless Slogans like this “will you have your eternity smoking or non smoking?” This is not even funny to me. And if their version of Hell were true it would not be anything to joke about for sure. This sort of thing is what leads me to believe the best about people and reason in my own mind that they don’t really think about what they say they believe or even really believe it else they could not do such impudent things.

It is quite evident that believers like me are the most persecuted Christian group of all. Not only do we receive what little regular persecution a Christian receives in the country and that is very little, I know I have been on both sides of the fence; but we are vehemently persecuted by nearly all other Christians as well!

Yes I am talking about us “CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST”. Just because we happen to FULLY believe the orthodox traditional view of the attributes and nature of God - is that so wrong? To believe in a really BIG GOD and a BIG JESUS Unlimited in Any Way? To choose to believe that God really is Infinitely Great! Omnipotent - Nothing He can’t do, Omniscient - Nothing He does not know and has always known, - about every person He ever created, Omnipresent - is everywhere, in all things, in all people, in all time, is All-Sovereign - His Sovereign rule and Sovereign will is Always carried out regardless of puny mankind’s will; (Otherwise God would REALLY be Sovereign) His Love and Sovereign Redemptive Purposes for His Creation Will Not, and Cannot Fail. He really is Love and really does Love ALL mankind even to the lowest sinner. Remember Jesus never rejected ANYONE who honestly came to him (Many times He went to Them) Jesus was much harder on religious hypocrites who were usually religious leaders; than he was on sinners. That’s why the religious leaders hated him… and Jesus warned us that they would hate us too.

What I am saying is we Christian Universalist believe in a REALLY BIG VICTORIOUS JESUS therefore, because of God’s Greatness, Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Love, and Sovereignty; His plan in His Love for the world to save the world through giving His Son Christ Jesus could not have failed in any way, under any circumstances. We are saying that Jesus did not fail in His mission to save the world. As Jesus’s parables of the lost coin, the lost sheep, the lost son are telling us God does not give up until every last one comes home or he goes and finds them and brings them home. Luke 15:1-32 Remember Jesus told these parables in the context of the religious leaders complaining about His accepting the sinners - those they judged unfit for the Kingdom of God or heaven if you will.

Luke 15:1-4
1 Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him.

2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.”

3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:

4 “ What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety- nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost “until” he finds it?  {He doesn’t give up}

Then follows the parables of the lost coin and the lost son which ends with the one who was already “in” being very angry because, again, the sinner he thought should be out was accepted in….  I don’t mean to make anyone angry here in this article but this will anger some people; as in the parable of the lost son, it always has…
But Jesus plainly said:

John 3:17 “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
John 12:47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.”

You say OK then how will this happen? Well the bible is packed full of scripture backing up what I am saying but basically; the bible says in no less than four places that everyone will end up agreeably and reverently coming to God through Jesus Christ. God will not have to “force” them and would find no need or pleasure in doing so; His ego is just fine.

Philippians 2:10-11 “so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow - in heaven and on earth and under the earth- 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

See also: Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Eph 1:10, Col 1:20 also Mat 28:18

Ok, What About Hell?

In my opinion, and I think with good reason; The bible simply does not teach an eternal torment in hell in the original language. I know, I know, it does in some most popular English translations but there are also many scholarly English translations that do not teach Hell or Eternal Torment. This is easily proven and known by most theologians who would rather not talk about it.  There are four words that are translated from the original language as “hell” to keep this short without going into depths of it I’ll just give you the meanings, Again these are easily searched out on Google. The only one in the Old Testament is in Hebrew “sheol” which means a pit, grave, underworld. The word hell has completely disappeared from the Old Testament in many popular new translations. In the New Testament there is in Greek “gehenna” which was a city dump outside of Jerusalem and the word was mostly used by Jesus and his listeners would have understood what He meant. The word “Hell” as we understand it never came out of Jesus’s mouth.  Another word “hades” which is easily traced back to pagan traditions; means the same thing and is the equivalent of the Hebrew “sheol” a pit, grave, underworld. Then there is “tataroo” which was only used once by Peter describing a place similar to hades but only angels are mentioned as going there; it is easily traced back to pagan traditions also. That’s it, there’s your hell from the original languages the Bible was written in, no more no less.

I should also add, the Apostle Paul who wrote two thirds of the New Testament, in whose writings we get most of our Christian theology NEVER speaks of an eternal hell and only uses one of these words that is sometimes translated Hell, ONE TIME in all his writings; there it is transliterated as it actually is “hades” in some translations and some say “grave” or “death” which should give you a clue as to how it was understood in those days. Therefore letting the bible interpret the bible this is the meaning of Hades – grave, pit, or death; NOT eternal Hell Fire. And in this One passage Paul says “IT IS DEFEATED!” 1Cor 15:54-55 .  As far as the word for “eternal” it is translated from various forms of the Greek word “aion” which is directly translated into English as “an age” a period of time long or short with a beginning and an end, not forever. Again many scholarly yet not popular translations of the bible DO NOT have the word Eternal, Everlasting, or Forever, ANYWHERE related to the future state of the wicked because in all honestly it is unjustifiable in these places. That’s it, there’s your eternal hell in the original biblical languages. I will let you put all this together in your own mind; it’s your choice. I don’t know what you will come up with but it was hard for me to justify a translation of an eternal hell after learning these things; especially considering the above subject of the Greatness and Goodness of God.

What about Punishment for the wicked?

Yes, there will be; but I would rather more correctly use the word “Correction” God does not punish without purpose. Eternal pain would have no purpose, but long or short lasting correction would have a Good Purpose as in all of Gods works. You say, “well that sounds like you’re paying for your own sins! What then did Jesus die for?” - Jesus died for YOU, because the payment for sin is “Death” Rom 6:23 also refer to the Garden of Eden, God did not say if you eat the fruit you will burn forever in Hell! Although if it were true it would have been a good place to let them know…. If Jesus had not died for our sins we would have simply died and that would be it - gone! You are not immortal because you are not God and only God is immortal 1Tim 6:16 . Again, remember in the Garden of Eden God kept them from the tree of life “Lest they eat and live for ever” Gen 3:22 .  But because God Loves us All so much He wanted to save you. so Jesus died for you so you will not have to die - Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life! Therefore NOW you are God’s property, bought with a price, adopted into His family and He is your Father, as every good father He will correct you (Heb 12:5-6) for as long as it takes to bring about your perfection so that you will be able to enjoy eternity with Him; otherwise you wouldn’t even know how to enjoy it. No you are not paying for your sins; Jesus did that to give you and us all Life – IN ORDER THAT “WE COULD BE CORRECTED” AND PERFECTED TO LIVE HAPPILY FOREVER IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST! You see you had to have life - be alive, be here, to be corrected. It would be hard to correct a person who is dead…. It’s real simple!

So how Big is your Jesus?

If He is as BIG as I believe He is; I wish I didn’t have to say this but, You Will have to dodge some rocks for believing it; I guarantee you!…. I don’t understand why we Christian Universalist cannot be accepted just as other faiths accept and respect one another knowing their serious differences. Just like them we believe the bible is the Inspired Word of God and have plenty of Scripture, Church Fathers, Church History, (This is not something new) and Reason to back up what we are saying. We believe in the Life, Cross, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. We trust Jesus Christ as our Savior and  love the Lord just like others do. We just don’t believe in eternal punishment in Hell Fire and have plenty of scripture to validate our conclusions. We believe punishment without purpose is pointless. Judgment, Correction Yes, but Endless suffering with no hope of rectification would be aimlessness; which is not in the nature of God as I understand Him.   But if someone wants to believe in eternal torment in hell, I say OK go ahead, maybe you need to. I don’t… but let’s live and let live, love one another and respect one another’s beliefs. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. So let Him sort it out. Personally, I’m just going to trust Him for all that I know He is and that’s enough.

In Christ Love,
Pastor Dennis