« Have You Been Persecuted For Your Faith Today? »

It is relatively easy to live as a mainstream traditional Christian in America today; but what of Jesus words:

John 15:18-21
(18)  If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
(19)  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
(20)  Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
(21)  But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.

First we have to ask ourselves the question was Jesus speaking of a nation, the church, or on an individual basis? It is obvious from the context that Jesus was speaking on an individual basis as he used phrases like “I am the vine, ye are the branches” If a man” “These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full” “love one another, as I have loved you” “Ye are my friends” “chosen you, and ordained you” and finally speaking of the same Spirit we would receive today:

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

So obviously this warning is a personal word for believers of that day and today that they would be hated and persecuted for their faith in Him.

How Big is Jesus Christ according to your faith?

Ironically, the Greater your Jesus, the Greater your Persecution;
The Smaller your Jesus the Smaller your Persecution.

“How Great is our God”

That should be a statement of Praise but it has become a Question today.

Chris Tomlin came out with a worship song with this same title that is loved and sang in multitudes of Protestant Churches across America today. Although you probably already know it, here are part of the lyrics of the song:

“The splendor of a King, clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice
All the earth rejoice
How great is our God, sing with me
How great is our God, and all will see
How great, how great is our God
Age to age He stands
And time is in His hands
Beginning and the end
Beginning and the end”

In other words they are singing that God is “infinite” in His being and “in control of all things” from the beginning to the end throughout all time. Another way of putting it would be that they are saying they agree with the traditional doctrine of the attributes of God being Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and All-Sovereign making Him Ruler of, and in Control of, ALL THINGS from BEGINNING to END. The majority, I think, would agree with this.

Also in the Catholic Mass repeated every week in Catholic Churches all across America today are repeated these words - I only include the part with which I wish to make my point:

Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father.
Lord Jesus Christ,
Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world,

[The new version]

What’s my Point?

Today Christians of all types are enjoying fellowship around the world in all kinds of events, causes, and community gatherings. I believe it is wonderful considering all the blood that has been spilled and lives that have been lost over the centuries between these groups and their splinter groups over their differences in theology.  It is beautiful how they can fellowship and join forces in these many ways while they overlook their differences and agree on the basics of theology. One of these being “How Great is Our God” as they all believe in the established attributes of God. That being, that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and All-Sovereign. While they also agree that Jesus Christ came to take away the sin of the world. I would also add that all would agree that God is Love and Loves All. So, they are all just one big happy global Christian family - believing in a Big God! Right? But how big?

Let me interject here with just a basic understanding of their differences in theology; there is a huge gulf between them in some areas; there are hundreds if not thousands of ways in which they all disagree. I say this not to discredit them but to clarify the point I making for fellowship; for which you will need this understanding. To not point a finger and also to keep this as short as possible I will only mention some of the differences and not the label which they belong to. Although these can be easily referenced by doing a simple Google search or one of the other major internet search engines and you will see that these differences are very real. The most important and most fundamental doctrine of their Christian faith is - how is one saved? Surely this is paramount to them and should be taken with the utmost seriousness. Amazingly while these groups have come together in peaceful fellowship around many community gatherings; these will completely set aside what they REALLY believe about their most urgent and serious doctrine – salvation of the soul.

Some believe one is saved only a few days following birth before the child knows anything about God by a simple ceremony obediently followed by a family who is a part of their group. This salvation continues until the child grows to the age to know right and wrong (age of accountability – nowhere found in scripture) then he or she must go through it again to continue in this salvation. And by the way, if you have not become a part of this particular group in one of these ways you cannot be saved. [You’re going to Hell]

Other groups in this gathering believe this is totally wrong and much blood has been shed in the past over these very differences.

While several other groups also believe you must be a part of their group to be saved by going through a similar ceremony or of course you cannot be saved. [You’re going to Hell]

Some believe your eternal salvation or eternal damnation is chosen by God before you are even born.

Others believe you must choose yourself whether to be saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation if you cross a line somewhere which no one knows for sure what or where it is…

While others believe that once you are saved their way you will always be saved and cannot lose it no matter what you do. “Once saved always saved” If you Really believed…

Most believe there are certain words one has to say and believe to be saved but they greatly differ in what these words may be or where and when they should be said. And of course if you didn’t do it right … [You’re going to Hell]

Some believe there are certain doctrines one must “really” believe to be saved while others  give you the freedom to sort of believe it as you see it.

Some believe there are certain things you must physically do to be saved while others do not think this is necessary.

Some believe there are some things you must remember to be “really” saved.

Some believe there are certain supernatural spiritual things that must happen to you that must be physically evident, while some others think these same things are of the devil… and if you practice them you’re on the road to Hell…

Some believe you must dress a certain way or have restrictions on make-up and hair styles while others don’t believe this is necessary.

Some believe you must keep certain rules that others do not think are important.

Some believe one can go directly to God yourself; while others believe you must go through another official church representative or a Priest or someone who is already saved.

Then there are sacraments and differing rituals that are required by some but not by others like baptism or even taking communion or the Eucharist, is required for salvation. Or of course [You’re going to Hell]

I could go on and on but I just wanted to touch on the MOST IMPORTANT question in all these groups purpose and their beliefs and they would all agree; it is whether a person is lost or saved; going to heaven or Hell. Unless you’re Catholic and they have Purgatory which is a temporary Hell. I find it bewildering that they could all differ so greatly on the requirements for going to heaven but one thing they ALL AGREE on is HELL! Don’t mess with their Hell! So if you do not keep their version of their all-important procedure of how to be saved YOU WILL GO TO AN ETERNAL EVERLASTING UNRELENTING CONSCIENCE TORMENT IN HELL WITH NO HOPE FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS AND THAT’S JUST THE BEGINNING OF ETERNITY!

Amazing isn’t it? That all these groups can fellowship so lovingly and peacefully together while they rally around certain causes, gather together in community meetings, go to concerts and fellowship meals and happily fellowshipping, singing and talking as if everything is OK - I love you, you love me, the Lord loves us, we love the Lord….. [Psssst but you’re going to HELL!] Not a big deal I don’t guess huh… Unless…. Yes, UNLESS… You happen to say you don’t believe their traditional view of hell…. then watch for flying rocks!!! Which leads me on to where I was in this article.

Now let’s look at another scenario.

We have a chat room, forum or blog maybe even twitter or facebook. There is conversation happily going on between all these brothers and sisters in Christ about the Goodness and Greatness of God; Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Nondenominational, Even some Catholics etc.  – it’s so wonderful! “We all believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible and Love the Lord!” Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound….”

Now enter in a Christian who mentions they do not believe in their view of how to be saved or stay saved… There will be some discussion of their differing views which usually doesn’t get too heated, sometimes even jokingly continue about how the other one is going to get bad news from St Peter at the pearly gates… Then they will go on with their fellowship.

Now enter in a Christian, a believer in Christ and the Bible who dearly Loves the Lord and His Children into the group; hold on to your seat now! - a Christian who does not believe in their traditional view of hell or eternal torment… Tempers will flare, words will get extremely harsh as the conversation continues and personal assault will ensue on the honest thoughts of this believing brother or sister.

These groups who differ so greatly on whether the other one is going to heaven or hell and in their basic beliefs believe many of the others are going to Hell; will rally together and join forces to thrust out this devil! that brings such heretical ideas! I have been in these situations many times and I know from experience. It can heat up real fast when you mess with their hell.

In these I’m usually not trying to convert them; just giving my thoughts on the matter. If they want to believe in eternal conscious torment that’s their right; maybe they need to. But it is equally my right to believe otherwise and should be shown the same respect they have for the other differing brothers and sisters on some very important doctrines. I am truly amazed and perplexed by what rouses such animosity so quickly on this subject that at other times they seem to take so lightly? They will even try to joke about it at times.

What is it about my view on this subject that pushes their buttons so quickly? Do they want some to go to Hell? I hope not, I wouldn’t want anyone to go to a place like that even if I believed in it. Which leads to another thought. If I did really believe what the traditional orthodox view of Hell teaches (which even as a Baptist then Pentecostal minister I never did but kept that to myself) if I really believed it I wouldn’t get much sleep, I’d spend as much time as possible either on my knees or running around  screaming at the top of my lungs warning people of this unimaginably horrific fate they were facing! Oddly though, those who say they believe the teaching of conscience eternal torment in the flames of Hell just brush it off and go on to another subject or change it to something lighter sounding like “eternal separation from God”. Sometimes even making silly jokes about it like “If you think it’s Hot here?” If I believed it I wouldn’t see anything to joke about or think it was funny in the least. Yet you will see the road sides littered with church signs with Thoughtless Slogans like this “will you have your eternity smoking or non smoking?” This is not even funny to me. And if their version of Hell were true it would not be anything to joke about for sure. This sort of thing is what leads me to believe the best about people and reason in my own mind that they don’t really think about what they say they believe or even really believe it else they could not do such impudent things.

It is quite evident that believers like me are the most persecuted Christian group of all. Not only do we receive what little regular persecution a Christian receives in the country and that is very little, I know I have been on both sides of the fence; but we are vehemently persecuted by nearly all other Christians as well!

Yes I am talking about us “CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST”. Just because we happen to FULLY believe the orthodox traditional view of the attributes and nature of God - is that so wrong? To believe in a really BIG GOD and a BIG JESUS Unlimited in Any Way? To choose to believe that God really is Infinitely Great! Omnipotent - Nothing He can’t do, Omniscient - Nothing He does not know and has always known, - about every person He ever created, Omnipresent - is everywhere, in all things, in all people, in all time, is All-Sovereign - His Sovereign rule and Sovereign will is Always carried out regardless of puny mankind’s will; (Otherwise God would REALLY be Sovereign) His Love and Sovereign Redemptive Purposes for His Creation Will Not, and Cannot Fail. He really is Love and really does Love ALL mankind even to the lowest sinner. Remember Jesus never rejected ANYONE who honestly came to him (Many times He went to Them) Jesus was much harder on religious hypocrites who were usually religious leaders; than he was on sinners. That’s why the religious leaders hated him… and Jesus warned us that they would hate us too.

What I am saying is we Christian Universalist believe in a REALLY BIG VICTORIOUS JESUS therefore, because of God’s Greatness, Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Love, and Sovereignty; His plan in His Love for the world to save the world through giving His Son Christ Jesus could not have failed in any way, under any circumstances. We are saying that Jesus did not fail in His mission to save the world. As Jesus’s parables of the lost coin, the lost sheep, the lost son are telling us God does not give up until every last one comes home or he goes and finds them and brings them home. Luke 15:1-32 Remember Jesus told these parables in the context of the religious leaders complaining about His accepting the sinners - those they judged unfit for the Kingdom of God or heaven if you will.

Luke 15:1-4
1 Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him.

2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.”

3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:

4 “ What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety- nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost “until” he finds it?  {He doesn’t give up}

Then follows the parables of the lost coin and the lost son which ends with the one who was already “in” being very angry because, again, the sinner he thought should be out was accepted in….  I don’t mean to make anyone angry here in this article but this will anger some people; as in the parable of the lost son, it always has…
But Jesus plainly said:

John 3:17 “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
John 12:47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.”

You say OK then how will this happen? Well the bible is packed full of scripture backing up what I am saying but basically; the bible says in no less than four places that everyone will end up agreeably and reverently coming to God through Jesus Christ. God will not have to “force” them and would find no need or pleasure in doing so; His ego is just fine.

Philippians 2:10-11 “so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow - in heaven and on earth and under the earth- 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

See also: Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Eph 1:10, Col 1:20 also Mat 28:18

Ok, What About Hell?

In my opinion, and I think with good reason; The bible simply does not teach an eternal torment in hell in the original language. I know, I know, it does in some most popular English translations but there are also many scholarly English translations that do not teach Hell or Eternal Torment. This is easily proven and known by most theologians who would rather not talk about it.  There are four words that are translated from the original language as “hell” to keep this short without going into depths of it I’ll just give you the meanings, Again these are easily searched out on Google. The only one in the Old Testament is in Hebrew “sheol” which means a pit, grave, underworld. The word hell has completely disappeared from the Old Testament in many popular new translations. In the New Testament there is in Greek “gehenna” which was a city dump outside of Jerusalem and the word was mostly used by Jesus and his listeners would have understood what He meant. The word “Hell” as we understand it never came out of Jesus’s mouth.  Another word “hades” which is easily traced back to pagan traditions; means the same thing and is the equivalent of the Hebrew “sheol” a pit, grave, underworld. Then there is “tataroo” which was only used once by Peter describing a place similar to hades but only angels are mentioned as going there; it is easily traced back to pagan traditions also. That’s it, there’s your hell from the original languages the Bible was written in, no more no less.

I should also add, the Apostle Paul who wrote two thirds of the New Testament, in whose writings we get most of our Christian theology NEVER speaks of an eternal hell and only uses one of these words that is sometimes translated Hell, ONE TIME in all his writings; there it is transliterated as it actually is “hades” in some translations and some say “grave” or “death” which should give you a clue as to how it was understood in those days. Therefore letting the bible interpret the bible this is the meaning of Hades – grave, pit, or death; NOT eternal Hell Fire. And in this One passage Paul says “IT IS DEFEATED!” 1Cor 15:54-55 .  As far as the word for “eternal” it is translated from various forms of the Greek word “aion” which is directly translated into English as “an age” a period of time long or short with a beginning and an end, not forever. Again many scholarly yet not popular translations of the bible DO NOT have the word Eternal, Everlasting, or Forever, ANYWHERE related to the future state of the wicked because in all honestly it is unjustifiable in these places. That’s it, there’s your eternal hell in the original biblical languages. I will let you put all this together in your own mind; it’s your choice. I don’t know what you will come up with but it was hard for me to justify a translation of an eternal hell after learning these things; especially considering the above subject of the Greatness and Goodness of God.

What about Punishment for the wicked?

Yes, there will be; but I would rather more correctly use the word “Correction” God does not punish without purpose. Eternal pain would have no purpose, but long or short lasting correction would have a Good Purpose as in all of Gods works. You say, “well that sounds like you’re paying for your own sins! What then did Jesus die for?” - Jesus died for YOU, because the payment for sin is “Death” Rom 6:23 also refer to the Garden of Eden, God did not say if you eat the fruit you will burn forever in Hell! Although if it were true it would have been a good place to let them know…. If Jesus had not died for our sins we would have simply died and that would be it - gone! You are not immortal because you are not God and only God is immortal 1Tim 6:16 . Again, remember in the Garden of Eden God kept them from the tree of life “Lest they eat and live for ever” Gen 3:22 .  But because God Loves us All so much He wanted to save you. so Jesus died for you so you will not have to die - Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life! Therefore NOW you are God’s property, bought with a price, adopted into His family and He is your Father, as every good father He will correct you (Heb 12:5-6) for as long as it takes to bring about your perfection so that you will be able to enjoy eternity with Him; otherwise you wouldn’t even know how to enjoy it. No you are not paying for your sins; Jesus did that to give you and us all Life – IN ORDER THAT “WE COULD BE CORRECTED” AND PERFECTED TO LIVE HAPPILY FOREVER IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST! You see you had to have life - be alive, be here, to be corrected. It would be hard to correct a person who is dead…. It’s real simple!

So how Big is your Jesus?

If He is as BIG as I believe He is; I wish I didn’t have to say this but, You Will have to dodge some rocks for believing it; I guarantee you!…. I don’t understand why we Christian Universalist cannot be accepted just as other faiths accept and respect one another knowing their serious differences. Just like them we believe the bible is the Inspired Word of God and have plenty of Scripture, Church Fathers, Church History, (This is not something new) and Reason to back up what we are saying. We believe in the Life, Cross, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. We trust Jesus Christ as our Savior and  love the Lord just like others do. We just don’t believe in eternal punishment in Hell Fire and have plenty of scripture to validate our conclusions. We believe punishment without purpose is pointless. Judgment, Correction Yes, but Endless suffering with no hope of rectification would be aimlessness; which is not in the nature of God as I understand Him.   But if someone wants to believe in eternal torment in hell, I say OK go ahead, maybe you need to. I don’t… but let’s live and let live, love one another and respect one another’s beliefs. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. So let Him sort it out. Personally, I’m just going to trust Him for all that I know He is and that’s enough.

In Christ Love,
Pastor Dennis